traveling with watrolo's parents. with the search going to day five, the grieving families continue to wait. but for some the hope that their loved ones may return safely, that hope is hard to hold onto. thanks very much for watching the program tonight. "piers morgan live" starts now. this is "piers morgan live" tonight. four days and counting. that's how long it's been since a boeing 777 with 237 people onboard vanished. simply disappeared. no distress signal, no flash of an ex explosion, no wreckage, a frantic search by 34 planes, 40 ships and search crews from ten countries. the fate of malaysia airlines flight 370 remains a complete and utter mystery. here's what we know right now. a malaysian air force official says the flight was hundreds of miles off course, traveling in the wrong direction. although other officials are now contradicting that. the plane's transponder signal was lost before it disappeared.

two people on board have stolen passports. now reports that the copilot had invited two young women into the cockpit on a flight in 2011. i'll talk exclusively to one of those women in a moment. what does it all mean? tonight i'll ask the experts, including a man who's seen it all, dan rather. was a catastrophic failure, hijacking or something else? the vanishing of flight 370. joining me steve wallace, former director of the faa's office of accident investigation. attorneys michael verner, bill palmer, a commercial pilot and author of "understanding flight -- and associate director of search for the homeland security center at the university of southern california. welcome to all of you. fran townsend, let me start with you. it seemed like yesterday everyone was trying to push back on the idea this could have been an act of terror. but today the cia seemed to put it back into play and said, look, we just don't seem to know

what has happened here so we can't rule anything out. what is your understanding of where this investigation is going? >> look, piers, i think the more facts we get the kind of crazier and less clear, murky that it seems to get. now we think the plane not only changed direction, that the transponder may have been turned off and that it actually crossed over the country of malaysia on its way back in the wrong direction. now, there are conflicting reports. but you can understand when the director of cia is asked have you absolutely ruled out that this could be terrorism, why he would say no. there are stolen passports, tickets paid for with cash at the same travel agent. i mean, all of this leads them to want to look at things like are there -- and they need time to do it -- are there relations between passengers, other passengers on the plane that we aren't aware of? were there other stolen passports? is there a relationship between any of the passengers and anybody in the cockpit?

could it be that one of the pilots -- remember there was each of dare 990 -- is it possible that one of these pilots had psychological problems and decided to put the plane down? there are all these leads that have to be run down. and now on top of all of this sort of uncertainty, we have questions about the cooperation and the transparency of the malaysian government and malaysian airlines. it makes it all the more complicated and all the more difficult frankly for the victims and the families to get straight answers and understand exactly what's the state of that plane and their loved ones. >> bill palmer, you're very experienced commercial pilot and author. have you ever known anything quite like this in all your time of flying? >> i'm sorry. i couldn't understand the question. could you say it again, please? >> i was just asking you if in all your time as a commercial pilot you've ever come across a story quite as bizarre as this where there's literally no trace whatsoever of this plane and no

apparent warnings or any indication that there was any problem? >> well, it's certainly unusual. however, the way that things are happening it is consistent, i think, with a certain type of electrical failure that took out both the transponder and the flight management computer where the airplane's route is stored. if this were to happen and leave the auto pilot engaged, which is separate than the flight management computer, the airplane could very well revert back to the heading select mode. now, the heading is always selected as something. it just may happen to be at the heading that it took off after the transponder clicked off. so this is really consistent with a failure that could let the airplane turn completely automatically an head in that new direction essentially until someone turned it another way manually or -- go ahead.

>> right. but if that happened, would there still be no way of anybody on board the plane indicating to the airline that there was this problem going on? are you assuming that there's been some catastrophic fault maybe involving lack of oxygen or something which means no one is in capacity able to do that? >> well, i don't know what happened to the crew or anyone on board. that's not part of my theory. but if there was a certain electrical malfunction that took out both the transponder and the flight management computer, it could also take out other communication aspects, radios, automatic dialings, et cetera, that would account for the automatic turning of the airplane to a new heading which it stayed on essentially forever. now, before that happened we see that the airplane turned i think from like 25 to 40 degrees, and that if we look back at the previous day's flights, that's a normal turn in the route. so it indicates that at that

point the airplane was still flying on the program course. and then at some point there was some malfunction that took out the transponder. and the program route and then the airplane reverted to this other heading select mode. and then went in the other direction. >> okay. let me turn to steve wallace, former faa director of accident investigation. steve wallace, when you hear this, that was a very plausible explanation if that is what happened, one i hadn't heard spelled in such a coherent manner. extremely useful. many people are rushing i think to judge here from a very inexperienced position. when you look at this from an accident investigation point of view, clearly it's a very difficult thing to investigate because they don't seem to really know where this plane may have come down. where would you start from now if you were brought in right now with all the knowledge that you have of this today? where would you start in trying to really find this plane? >> well, piers, i'll start by

saying that i'm confident this accident will be solved to a high degree of certainty. because i think they will find the wreckage and find the recorders. but investigators without speculating will draw on what they've seen historically happen. and we've seen airplanes go off course because a pilot made an error, korean airlines 007 shot down in 1983 because pilots deliberately flew them off course. we just recently had the ethiopian pilot who wanted to defect to geneva or something. and then we've had a couple of cases, egyptair and perhaps silk air where the pilots crashed the plane. those were the conclusions of the investigators, even some of those conclusions were not accepted by the host country. but here you really have to look at -- this is a highly advanced airplane with a great deal of redundancy in the navigation communications system. and the fact that this airplane made what looks like a 90-degree

or perhaps more turn and at the same time the transponder was turned off or at least the transponder return disappeared, that would suggest to me a higher probability that someone unauthorized had gained control of that airplane. >> that obviously is still a matter of conjecture. there are conflicting reports from various malaysian government officials. that is part of the problem here. the information flow has not been great. erol south ers, you're associate director of the -- what is your assessment of where this investigation is right now? >> well, as mr. brennan said this morning, we cannot rule out terrorism at this point. and we will follow terrorism to ground until we know something different. you've got 239 people on this flight. 239 people that we have to vet and make sure nothing nefarious

on board. we know of two people on with fraudulent passports. to fran's comment about who else was on board and relationships, that's very important. what we'll do now we'll look at that plane as the center of this investigation, look at what might have happened in the cockpit, at everyone that had access to that aircraft from the point of origin, including the grounds crew, maintenance, baggage handlers, who could have had access to that plane, what went on it and who went on it to find out exactly what we're dealing with. >> i want to play this clip from john brennan, director of the cia. this is what he said today about the investigation. >> the cia are working with fbi and tsa and others, our malaysian counterparts are doing everything they can to try to put together the pieces here. clearly this is still a mystery which is very disturbing. until we can find out where that aircraft is, we might have an opportunity to do some other forensic analysis that will lead us in the right direction. >> at this point you're not ruling out that it could be

terror. >> not at all. >> michael verner, you're an international aviation trial attorney. obviously this is going to be a hideously complex legal matter as well whichever way it all gets resolved. what do you think of the way the malaysian government is behaving, the american response, and those aspects of this so far? >> well, first off, while the circumstances surrounding this accident are very mysterious, the law that would apply to malaysia airlines is not that mysterious. there's an international treaty called the montreal convention to which both china and malaysia are signatories. that dictates the responsibility of the air carrier, malaysia airlines in this case, regardless of the circumstances whether it was a pilot that intentionally crashed the aircraft or was a terrorist or a hijacking, it would still come within the ambit of the montreal convention. that eliminates certainly liabilities of malaysia airlines to the families of the passengers. now, in terms of the response of malaysia airlines has made so

far to this accident, i understand the position that they're in and the fact that there's very little information out there. but i would just hayes hasten to add only a couple of weeks ago the department of transportation fined asiana airlines over $500,000, i think it was $500,000 precisely for not providing proper support and guidance and counselling to families in that accident. that only happened last july. >> i want to go back if i may to bill palmer who was a very experienced commercial pilot. i just want to go very quickly, bill palmer, through the various theories and see if there are any you can absolutely rule out from your experience. because i found that your description of your theory fascinating earlier. if it had been a mid-air explosion would you have expected there to be some sign of this by now? >> i don't know. >> okay. >> it would depend on the degree of the explosion. i can't speculate on that.

>> if it had been mechanical failure, however catastrophic, would you have expected that to show up with the airline? would they have had a record of what happened as it happened? >> well, that's quite possible like we saw in air france 447. however, what i'm proposing as a possibility is failure that took out communication in navigation equipment at the same time, which inhibit both the transponder, the flight management compute where the stored route and possibly other communications equipment. i don't know exactly what electrical components would have to fail to do that in that precise manner. sure boeing could figure it out. i don't have the the capacity to figure that out. but it's a possibility. >> but just to clarify, it would be very very unusual, would it not, for a plane so modern and so high tech to simply disappear

off radar like this unless it was the very circumstance that you outlined originally? >> of course it's unusual. yes. there's airplanes are extremely reliable. >> okay. let's take a break. when we come back the tourists in the cockpit. did the copilot of flight 370 invite two tourists to stay in the cockpit during a flight in 2011? one young woman says yes and tells me her story exclusively next. at university of phoenix your education is built to help move your career forward. here's how: we work with leading employers to learn what you need to learn so classes impact your career. while helping ensure credits you've already earned pay off. and we have career planning tools to keep you on track every step of the way. plus the freshman fifteen, isn't really a thing here. and graduation, it's just the beginning. because we build education around where you want to go. so, you know, you can get the job you want. ready, let's get to work.

gundyes!n group is a go. not just a start up. an upstart. gotta get going. gotta be good. good? good. growth is the goal. how do we do that? i talked to ups. they'll help us out. new technology. smart advice. we focus on the business and they take care of the logistics. ups? good going. we get good. that's great. great. great. great. great. great. great. great. great. (all) great! i love logistics. (voseeker of the sublime.ro. you can separate runway ridiculousness... from fashion that flies off the shelves. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...

and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (natalie) ooooh, i like your style. (vo) so do we, business pro. so do we. go national. go like a pro. i reckon a storm's a bruin'. reckon so. reckon you gotta hotel? i reckon, no. reckon priceline express deals can get you a great deal. wherever you...mosey. you reckon? we reckon. vámonos! priceline express deals. anybody have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three types of good bacteria. i should probably take this. live the regular life. phillips'.

as the mystery deepens, in december of 2011 the flight's copilot who is now missing along with 238 other people apparently invited two south african tourists to stay in the cockpit for the entire flight from thailand to malaysia, a clear violation of the airline's rules. here now exclusively one of those women, jonte ruiz she joins me by skype from her home in australia. welcome to you. tell me exactly what happened. you were on this flight. and the copilot's name is fariq abdul hamid. what happened? >> my friend and i were standing in line at the boarding gate with all the other passengers waiting to board. and the copilots and pilots walked past us and came back and asked if we would want to sit with them in the cockpit during the flight. we said yes.

we boarded the plane with all the other passengers and went to our seats. a short while after taking our seats they asked us if we wanted to enter the cockpit which we did. and that's where we spent the flight. >> they were smoking and posing for pictures with you in the cockpit? >> they were smoking, and yes, they were posing for pictures. i'd just like to make it very clear i don't think they were distracted at all by posing for pictures. we did take pictures of them but i don't think it was a distraction. >> no. but having said that, you must have been as surprised as i'm sure all our viewers are at the ease of access of people they didn't know presumably at all before this to go into a cockpit at all. >> yes. i was pretty surprised by it. i thought that the fact that they were doing it must mean that it's something that happens quite often. i didn't realize how much against regulation it was. i actually thought it was something that was allowed with them doing it i assumed they

were allowed to be doing it. >> i can remember when i was much much younger, sometimes a pilot would invite young kids in to have a quick look at the cockpit. but certainly after 9/11 everything changed pretty dramatically. i assumed every airline. that's why this story coming when it did is so shocking i think. did you get the feeling they'd done this before with other people? >> yes. it didn't feel like it was something new to them. the crew also seemed to be quite comfortable with it. so it struck me that it was something that had happened before. >> i want to read a statement from malaysia airlines which says this "malaysia airlines has become aware of the allegations beans made against first officer fariq hamid which we take seriously. we are shocked by these allegations. we have not been able to confirm the validity of the pictures of the incidents. we're in the midst of a crisis and don't want to divert our attention. the welfare of both the crew and passengers families remain of the utmost importance to us."

obviously, a lot of concern about all aspects of security here. there have been people with stolen passports on this particular flight that's disappeared and so on. and clearly your testimony is important because it just shows a pretty lax attitude generally by at least one of the pilots involved in this flight to general security on the plane itsel itself. >> yes. i think possibly security was a little bit lax, but i am in no way trying to imply that the copilot or the pilots were off in any way. this is just my experience. i'm just telling it factually how it happened. >> and it's important also to say that this stage because we have no idea what's happened to this plane, it may be that this copilot, fariq abdul hamid did something absolutely wrong. he may have been heroically trying to save the plane. you've had attention from all this. some people questioning the validity of it.

the airline not committing to saying it genuinely happened. other than these pictures that you have, why should people believe you? >> well, why else would i have come forward with something like this? i think it just pretty much proves. you can see the pilots' faces in the pictures. i have no reason to make something like this up. it's not malicious at all. my heart really goes out to fariq abdul hamid and all the passengers, too. i wouldn't want to make something up that would potentially hurt people. >> and presumably there were a number of other passengers on the plane who would have seen you both going into the cockpit and coming out afterwards. >> i'm sure they would have. and [ inaudible ] with the pilots and copilots. i'm not sure who saw us leaving but people must have seen us go into the cockpit. >> i believe the pilot made

contact after the flight, sent you a message on facebook, is that correct? >> yes. he just sent me a message saying have a safe flight back home. >> when you heard what had happened, how did you realize it was the same pilot? >> i was scrolling through my facebook because i was friends with him on facebook i was scrolling through my facebook news feed. i saw a whole lot of people posting posts saying that they were so sorry to hear about what happened. i looked to see what had happened what was going going on. that's when i realized he was the pilot and one of the pilots on this plane. and then i realized that it was the same copilot and pilot. >> jonte rose, thanks very much for joining me from australia. i do appreciate it. it's certainly a startling twist to all this. i appreciate you taking the time to come on the show tonight. thank you. >> thank you so much. when we come back i want to get the reaction from our experts to what we've just heard. is it more common than we think

for crew members to invite guests like this into the cockpit? is it dangerous? [ male announcer ] your eyes. even at a distance of 10 miles... the length of 146 football fields... they can see the light of a single candle. your eyes are amazing. look after them with centrum silver. multivitamins with lutein and vitamins a, c, and e to support healthy eyes and packed with key nutrients to support your heart and brain, too. centrum silver. for the most amazing parts of you. but when we start worrying about tomorrow, we miss out on the things that matter today. ♪ at axa, we offer advice and help you break down your insurance goals into small, manageable steps. because when you plan for tomorrow, it helps you live for today. can we help you take a small step? for advice, retirement, and life insurance,

connect with axa. hey kevin...still eating chalk for hearburn? yea. try alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heart burn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. alka-seltzer fruit chews. enjoy the relief! but something about spending this time together -- sailing past ancient glaciers in alaska -- makes you realize how old time is and how short life is. she can take all the time she wants. princess cruises. come back new. [ female announcer ] plan your seven-day cruise from just $549. call your travel agent or 1-800-princess.

you heard jonte rose's story. she told me she was invited into the cockpit during a flight in 2011 with one of the pilots on the missing plane. joining me is mary sciavo former

inspector general from the department of transportation. n -- back with me fran townsend, bill palmer and errol south ers. your reaction to that revelation by this young south african woman about the copilot on this missing plane inviting her and a friend into the cockpit. what did you make of that? >> well, it's a shocking violation of requirements and protocol and reveals a sloppy attitude towards all the rules that go into making flying safe. sadly it's not the first time i've heard of such a thing, though. there have been at least two or three crashes caused by this very kind of behavior. but it does like i said it also bodes they may be sloppy about other pilot rules and not follow the rules and be very strict in the cockpit which is vital to safety. >> errol southers, you mentioned a good point to me in the break there. it may not be a security risk involving women like this, who may have been just invited in because they looked good to these pilots and they want to

talk to two nice-looking women. it may have been much more sinister in terms of dry run potential. >> absolutely. we're dealing with an adaptive adversary and intelligent adversary. they watch news, learn from every failed attempt or successful attempt. we've seen an evolution over time. shoe bomb technology, abdul matallib in 2009 with the underwear attempt. most recently the cargo issue. so have we now exposed a new opportunity? have we now actually presented a new vulnerability? if i have the right women on board that is a way into the cockpit? >> right. and maybe they've been watching planes like this. pure hypothesis. may be no link to terrorism whatsoever. now that you know that one of these pilots had a habit it appears of inviting completely random passengerses into the cockpit for the duration of entire flights, it does open up a whole different security issue. fran townsend, i've flown hundreds of flights in the last eight, nine years. and i can't remember ever seeing

any passenger on any of the flights i've ever been on going into the cockpit. used to happen when i was a kid. used to be young kids would go in. but i haven't seen that happen. so i find it quite shocking. not shocking that these two young women were invited in, but the fact that anyone is going into cockpits. what do you think of it from a security point of view? >> oh, piers, you don't even see the bringing small children up to the cockpit that used to happen before a plane took off. you actually -- that's a rarity anymore. a child may be invited to stand outside the cockpit and look in and go back to their seat. but never when it's in flight in a post 9/11 certainly in the united states. most americans will find this very shocking. one of the things we haven't mentioned, if you look at the map that we've sehown the graphc the plane is diverted and transponder goss ofs go off, th hour and ten minutes. this plane had only been up in the air less than an hour from

its takeoff in kuala lumpur. it then makes this hard turn and it is up in the air, no transponders and completely going in the wrong direction for an hour and ten minutes. that is a very long time. it's headed in the direction of indonesia. it's sort of incredible. one has to begin to ask, where is the malaysian government? did they notify the indonesians? why did no one think it was a problem for an hour and ten minutes the jet was going in the wrong direction and jets weren't scrambled. it violates nearly every protocol you can imagine in terms of civil aviation security. >> important to note again, there are conflicting reports about this turn of the plane and this supposed -- one malaysian government official saying one thing, a spokesman for the prime minister's office contradicting that. we need to wait and find out if that is what happened. certainly fran is right, if that is what happened it is extremely bizarre, unusual, and i would

argue quite sinister. now let me go back to bill palmer, the commercial pilot here. bill palmer, when you heard the young woman talking about her experience with this copilot on this flight, what did you think as a pilot? >> well, for a u.s. airline that would be unprecedented, especially in a post-9/11 age. i don't think that ever happens on a u.s. airline. >> would a u.s. pilot, commercial pilot, be fired if they were caught doing that? >> i don't know what the penalty would be. but it would not -- wouldn't be good. and it just -- it's just hard to imagine thought actually happening. >> and she didn't think that there was any distraction element involved in what happened. but looking at the pictures they were all posing for, it's hard to imagine that they weren't distracted. they're supposed to be focused on flying the plane. >> i can't argue with that.

>> from your knowledge, bill palmer, do other airlines perhaps in the far east, perhaps malaysia, kuala lumpur, beijing, wherever, do they have notoriously slightly more lax rules about this kind of thing? have you heard any stories like this outside of america before? >> i've not heard any stories, no. i don't think that the rules on that are quite as strict as they are in the united states but i don't know specifically what they are. >> is smoking prohibited for all pilots in cockpits in america? >> yeah, i believe smoking is prohibited on the entire airplane in the u.s., so that takes care of the flight deck as well. >> mary sciavo, people are tweeting me saying hang on, this is all a complete diversion, shouldn't be taking it seriously. a couple of pretty girls invited to the cockpit. i actually think it is a very significant revelation about the appallingly lax security at

least one of these pilots. >> and i actually have some first-hand knowledge of what would happen in the united states. there have been a few cases. in one case it was a few years back, pilots came out on a charter flight to judge a wet t-shirt contest. not only were they disciplined by their airline but they were prosecuted for civil aviation violations by the faa. any behavior such as this would be prosecuted by the faa as a civil aviation security violation. they would be fined. they could evenly possible lose their flying privileges. the faa takes a really dim view of this behavior as they should. so there is precedent in the u.s. that the faa would take action against such pilots in addition to their airlines. >> fran townsend, let's again hypothesize here. nobody has a clue what is responsible for this plane disappearing or where it is. but let's assume for a moment it was a terrorist operation. who are the most likely people to have had the capability to do this and the willingness to do

this? is it al qaeda? if so would they have already claimed responsibility in if not, who else? >> so al qaeda has been known to use kuala lumpur as a center, a hub of operations. we know two of the 9/11 hijackers went there for a planning session to plan the attack. we know that bin laden would often send injured members of al qaeda to kuala lumpur for medical treatment. so there is an association in kuala lumpur as an infrastructure port for al qaeda sympathizers and operators. if not al qaeda, who then? interesting we know that the two individuals who were on the fraudulent passports were iranian. we know the middle man who purchased the tickets at the same travel agent using cash was also iranian. iran is the single largest state sponsor of terror. the group that they give their money to and support to is hezbollah. they were responsible to the beirut barrack bombings against

the marine barracks in beirut in the 1980s. very militarily capable. so those are the two groups that immediately come to mind. again, piers, i think we have to emphasize while the cia director today wouldn't rule out terrorism, that may not be what's going on here. and it could very well be either a pilot who put it down intentionally or we haven't ruled out all the other causes like mechanical failure. >> and there have also been revelations just this week that iranians may have been involved in the lockerbie plane disaster, terrorist attack as it was back in scotland. so that cannot be discounted. having said that, the investigators are looking into the iranian angle seem to be leaning towards the fact that this was more of a mule smuggling operation that these were young iranian students trying to get asylum or get out of the country. who knows. we just don't know yet. but certainly fascinating. thank you all very much indeed, bill palmerer, fran counsel send,errol southers and mary

sciavo. coming back i'll ask dan rather what his instincts tell him about the mystery of flight 370. there's a saying around here, you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. the was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today at angieslist.com i takbecause you can't beatrning for zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. cozy or cool?

"meow" or "woof"? exactly the way you want it ... until boom, it's bedtime! your mattress is a battleground of thwarted desire. enter the all-new sleep number classic series. designed to let couples sleep together in individualized comfort. starting at just $699.99 for a queen mattress. he's the softy. his sleep number setting is 35. you're the rock, at 60. and snoring? sleep number's even got an adjustment for that. find your sleep number setting only at a sleep number store. know better sleep with sleep number.

we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness if you qualify, and new car replacement, standard with our auto policies. so call liberty mutual at... today. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? my next guest has seen it all. he's coanchor of the cbs evening news for two decades, reported

with "60 minutes" and "48 hour." joining me now is dan rather, host of access tv's big interview with dan rather. dan, great to see you. you've covered pretty much every major plane disaster spanning decades. what do you make of this? it's a story that's gripping america, gripping the world. >> well, gripping is the word and also confounding. i'm tempted to say this thing is so confounding it would gave aspirin a headache. but one doesn't want to joke about this situation. number one, each of these plane crashes, plane disappearances, is unique into itself. number two, it's still very, very early in this. and i'd be willing to bet the trailer money, piers, that most of the conjecture and speculation we're hearing now, including my own, will prove to be wrong. usually the early speculation is wrong. there is some really as i say confounding, almost dumbfounding facts to this. the fact the plane struck a v,

not u turn but v turn and it was many hours i think more than a day before we found out that that was the case. and as several of your previous guests have pointed out, so many questions that arise out of this thing. one, i think it would be a long time before we know what happened. two, there are bound to be all kind of conspiracy theory. i for one would say gently we need to put aside all conspiracy theories for the moment. in my own mind i rule out nothing whatsoever. there are two other points about this, piers, we might want to consider. we think in modern terms of the world being small. everybody says the world has shrunk and gotten smaller. we tend to forget that there are so many vast areas, not just the oceans but also jungles and other places that are remote. there's more of the world that we don't know of, that we can't reach with things like this than there is that we can. the other is we're used to having information snap right at our fingertips. and we tend to be stunned when all of a sudden we know almost

nothing. >> it does seem extraordinary, i think, to most people that in such a high tech modern world with most of the passengers probably had cell phones or laptops or ipads, whatever it may be and you've got this incredibly sophisticated cockpit with all the gadgetry and technology and backup systems, that no one's been able to trace any of this. what does that instinctively tell you, dan, about what happened to the plane? do they really just dive straight into the ocean and that's why no one can track anything? >> well, that's certainly a possibility. i don't happen to buy that theory. but we're all dealing with theory. but i think it was fran townsend just a few moments ago made a very interesting point. that is that for well over an hour, far more than an hour, nothing was heard from this airplane. as one who travels a lot intercontinently as i know you do, you always think that somebody somewhere is monitoring the airplane. what this tells us about what was supposed to be happening and charting the flight and

following the flight with airport control, what was supposed to be happening obviously didn't happen. this is not to blame anybody, but this is a central question. the plane had no communication with anybody for well over an hour and nobody noticed? nobody caught that? strange indeed. i wouldn't be surprised that anything happens the way this story goes. i emphasize again, piers, it will be a long time before we know what happened if ever. >> i mean, they could get lucky tomorrow. it could take years. no idea how it's going to play out. certainly i think the key part of what we do know is still i think not completely locked down, this malaysian government official who revealed as you say 24 hours later that the plane had taken a massive detour for an hour. that has been contradicted by other government officials, including i think the malaysia prime minister's official spokesman. so we have to get to the bottom of that. but if that is true, that would seem to me -- and i am not an aviation expert, but having

talked to quite a few of them, that would seem to me to suggest foul play in some form. i can't imagine a plane just flying around for an hour without being able to communicate with anybody involuntarily. >> well, exactly. and that was the central point i was trying to make earlier. it is worth underscoring. very strange indeed. and you say well it would seem to suggest foul play. there are all kinds of things that seem to quote suggest foul play. i for one don't rule out foul play. in fact as time goes along you're a little more inclined to say we have to consider it. there are always voices who say gosh, it had to be a mechanical failure, had to be pilot error. there are all kinds of reasons to question that as well. at this point one we should be careful of any conspiracy theories. two, nothing should be ruled out. nothing including the fact the plane may have gone somewhere and landed. i'm not suggesting that happened but we shouldn't rule out anything. it's far too early. it's time for that word that

edward r. murrow suggested during world war ii and other crisis time, time for us to stay steady. stay steady, don't conclusion jump. it will be a long time before we know what happened. >> what do you think, dan, of the potential iranian link with all this? we know there are these two young iranian males who were on board using stolen passports. it would appear the real reason is probably connected to asylum or whatever it may be and not terrorism. but it comes in the week that al jazeera has broadcast this documentary making startling new claims that it wasn't libya that ordered the lockerbie bombing but the iranians in retaliation for an attack on one of their civilian airliners. what do you think of that coming together at the same time? >> well, that would raise my suspicions. and i think it would raise any reasonable person's suspicions. keeping in mind that iran is the principal sponsor of terrorism around the world. the principal sponsor of terrorism.

and the fact that two iranians using false passports are aboard the plane naturally is going to be suspicious. again not jumping to conclusions and i know you aren't. but you raise a very strong point. why rule that out? in fact, i think increasingly as the hours go by you have to rule it in as a possibility. perhaps a remote possibility at this stage. anything is possible. >> yeah. i don't think you can rule anything in or out. i think people that try to rule out terrorism i think are jumping the gun as much as people who try and rule it in. >> amen to that. >> as you say, important to stick to the facts as we get them. one of the big problems with this, as you and i know, is that the facts coming even from the official bodies in malaysia are contradicto contradictory. dan rather i could talk to you all night about this. it's a riveting story. our hearts as i'm sure yours do, too, go out to these poor families waiting for some knowledge and information about what happened to their

relatives. dan thank you very much indeed. >> thanks a lot, piers, coming up the latest on the loss of flight 370, i'll ask the man who found the titanic where he thinks the missing plane may be. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. and this park is the inside of your body. see the special psyllium fiber in metamucil actually gels. and that gelling helps to lower some cholesterol. metamucil. 3 amazing benefits in 1 super fiber. has begun.

♪ command the power... ♪ ...exhilaration... ♪ ...and precision of the lexus performance line. ♪ during the command performance sales event. get great offers on your favorite lexus models, now through march 31st. this is the pursuit of perfection. now through march 31st. your hepatitis c.forget it's slow moving, you tell yourself. i have time. after all there may be no symptoms for years. no wonder you try to push it to the back of your mind and forget it. but here's something you shouldn't forget. hepatitis c is a serious disease. if left untreated, it could lead to liver damage and potentially even liver cancer. if you are one of the millions of people with hepatitis c,

you haven't been forgotten. there's never been a better time to rethink your hep c. because people like you may benefit from scientific advances. advances that could help you move on from hep c. now is the time to rethink hep c and talk to your doctor. visit hepchope.com to find out about treatment options. and register for a personalized guide to help you prepare for a conversation with your doctor. ameriprise asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today.

[ yell the families of 239 people understandably desperate. so far no price of flight 370. my next guest knows a thing or two about deep sea searches. he's the plan who found the titanic. thank you for joining me, bob ballard. you found big, old ships which

people thought would never be found, the bismarck, titanic and others, and found them in often very difficult terrain and waters. what is your reading of the situation that we're now in with this missing plane? >> well, it seemed to be changing every hour, but the latest information suggests that it went down or could have gone down in the moroccan straits. that's anywhere shallow, ait's n area of very strong currents. so you have to remember that if there is degree in the water, as time goes by, that debris is moving and this particular time the currents are to the northwest. so if you go to the spot where it went down, the debris will not be there. so you need to be able to search to the northwest and extrapolate backwards. so time continues to move, if

there is debris. i cannot believe that there is not debris in the water. but as you know, they've only recently begun to look there. but there are now good assets. the u.s. navy 7th fleet has helicopters in there with sophisticated search radars. so let's see what happens in the next 24 hours. >> would you make an assumption, obviously a guess work assumption, but an assumption it's more likely to be in the water, because had it crashed into land there would have been some sign of it by now. >> you would think. but if you look, i've been searching and looking at the land mass in malaysia. it's not in some areas, not densely populated. it's very overgrown, so it's conceivable it went down on land. but since their last contact was over water, it was actually headed towards indonesia, and if you extrapolate, which i haven't

seen anyone really do, where is it headed, and it's really headed towards the northern part of indonesia. after that, it's out into the indian ocean. if it heads out into the indian ocean, which it had the fuel to do that, it's a whole other ball gain. >> the straits of malacca have lots of shallow water and this can confuse the sonar sound waves used to locate objects on the ocean floor, is that right? >> well, it is. but the typical way of looking would be using a sonar system, particularly side scan sonar systems, which are sort of the tool of choice. that would not be an issue. it's not that shallow. so using side scan sonars, you could put out a tremendous number of those assets into the field, because there's so many of them in the world. and also the use of auvs.

there's a lot of tools that you can bring to bear once you can narrow the search area down. so i think what people are waiting to see is, is there any new information, does the indonesian, air force, did they pick up anything, or are we concentrating on this area? >> what about the black box that we always hear about in these circumstances, presumably it is there somewhere, do you know the nature of modern black boxes in planes like this? >> oh, yes. and this water depth is simply not an issue. they can work down to 20,000 feet. you can get interesting pathways in shallow water, which would be an issue. but the issue is how long will the black box continue transmitting? i believe the numbers i've heard is something like up to a month. so i think there's plenty of

time for that black box to be heard. so certainly that's what i would see happening. people trying to hear the black box, and then at some point being comfortable to begin mounting an actual search. and that to me is what we're going to be seeing happening. i'm confident that they will -- they want to find it and they will spend the time and energy to find it. >> as we have just seen, they're not actually black always, but that's the term that's used generically for those particular boxes. one final question, very briefly. is it easier to find a plane that's broken up or one that's staid as it is when it gets into the water? >> my personal experience is it's a lot easier to find one that's broken up because it's over such a large area, and you do have significant pieces, certainly the engines and big

parts of the fuselage. so if i were to have a choice, i would pick a plane that is fragmented and covering a much larger area. >> bob ballard, thank you very much for joining me. >> pleasure. >> that's all for us tonight. "weed two" with dr. sanjay gupta starts right now. ♪ geico motorcycle. see how much you could save. this is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity

as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas. this ensures we can produce clean electricity whenever our customers need it. ♪ [ male announcer ] this man has an accomplished research and analytical group at his disposal. ♪ but even more impressive is how he puts it to work for his clients. ♪ morning. morning. thanks for meeting so early. oh, it's not a big deal at all. come on in. [ male announcer ] it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪